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[asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.

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nk3569 at yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:23 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Hello list,

Short version:
Teliax owes us $833 for TF traffic we sent them between March-November 2014. To date we have not received payment for any of this traffic, we keep getting ignored, given the run-around ("someone in accounting is looking at it"), and other excuses. BEWARE, AND DO NOT DEAL WITH THESE FRAUDSTERS!

Long version:
Last year, in an attempt to get compensated for our toll-free traffic, we got referred to Teliax by a member of this list. We signed the agreement and started sending traffic - everything worked fine except for lack of payment - we never received a single cent from Teliax.

After several months of not getting paid I tried contacting Simon Booth (Director of Business Development) who assured me payment is coming - they just supposedly pay about 3 months late. A surprise, but not something I couldn't live with.

I waited another two months and not surprisingly we still haven't received anything. I tried contacting Teliax again several times and was either completely ignored, or assured that "someone in accounting is looking at it".

A couple months later I broke down and threatened to expose them publicly for their fraudulent business practices, to which I finally received a reply from CEO David Aldworth claiming that they do not initiate payments for amounts below $1000 - a ridiculous practice I was never told about, and one that is NOT specified in our agreement. He acknowledged they owe us $833 and assured me payment will be sent. This was back in November. Half a year later we still haven't received payment, and as usual our attempts at contact go ignored.

I have no choice but assume the worst, and label this company fraud.

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beckman at angryox.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

So disappointing to hear Nitzan.

I've found that even when I don't think my customers are right, or I can
prove they aren't right, it is better for my own sanity and for my business
to make exceptions and provide a great experience and give refunds or send
money than to make up policies or excuses or try and prove that our
business is in the right.

I had a customer who didn't pay their bill, so after 30 days we
disconnected his numbers. They got really mad and said they lost a ton of
business. It wasn't our fault, but we also didn't want to have a customer
leave super unhappy. So they sent us an invoice for what they spent on some
advertising of those numbers and we split it with them.

Was it our fault? Nope. But we did it to demonstrate that our customers are
more to us than revenue generators. And the customer decided to stay with
us, and we have a great relationship with them to this day. It took 6
months for us to break even on that, but it was worth it for that
relationship.

I'm sure this post will cost the business more than $833 in bad press. It
doesn't even matter to me or them if either of you are "right" or to hear
their side. The relationship wasn't valued enough to solve this quickly and
move on.

I know you've experienced it too Nitzan, with the VoIP rates with Future
Nine back in 2010. Hopefully the you today would never respond to customers
with "No offense, and I'm sorry about this - but we are too busy right now
with other issues which are higher priority..." when they make a complaint.

I hope this can be a cautionary tale for all of us to remember that our
customers are humans too, and we need to treat them with respect, and to
be empathetic and value the relationship over money arguments.

Beckman

On Wed, 13 May 2015, Nitzan Kon wrote:

Quote:
Hello list,

Short version:
Teliax owes us $833 for TF traffic we sent them between March-November
2014. To date we have not received payment for any of this traffic, we
keep getting ignored, given the run-around ("someone in accounting is
looking at it"), and other excuses. BEWARE, AND DO NOT DEAL WITH THESE
FRAUDSTERS!

Long version:
Last year, in an attempt to get compensated for our toll-free traffic, we
got referred to Teliax by a member of this list. We signed the agreement
and started sending traffic - everything worked fine except for lack of
payment - we never received a single cent from Teliax.

After several months of not getting paid I tried contacting Simon Booth
(Director of Business Development) who assured me payment is coming -
they just supposedly pay about 3 months late. A surprise, but not
something I couldn't live with.

I waited another two months and not surprisingly we still haven't
received anything. I tried contacting Teliax again several times and was
either completely ignored, or assured that "someone in accounting is
looking at it".

A couple months later I broke down and threatened to expose them publicly
for their fraudulent business practices, to which I finally received a
reply from CEO David Aldworth claiming that they do not initiate payments
for amounts below $1000 - a ridiculous practice I was never told about,
and one that is NOT specified in our agreement. He acknowledged they owe
us $833 and assured me payment will be sent. This was back in November.
Half a year later we still haven't received payment, and as usual our
attempts at contact go ignored.

I have no choice but assume the worst, and label this company fraud.

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universe at truemetal.org
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Am 13.05.2015 um 23:23 schrieb Nitzan Kon:
Quote:
Hello list,

Short version:
Teliax owes us $833 for TF traffic we sent them between March-November 2014. To date we have not received payment for any of this traffic, we keep getting ignored, given the run-around ("someone in accounting is looking at it"), and other excuses. BEWARE, AND DO NOT DEAL WITH THESE FRAUDSTERS!

Short version: They're not fraudsters. I was in the same situation like
you. About 500 USD worth of toll-free traffic generated over a period of
about 1.5 years. When requesting a payout I got told the minimum payout
is 2000 USD. But in the end they paid us.

They paid us about 4 weeks ago.

They are very, ultra, mega, unbelievably slow with replying
to/processing E-Mails and you need to constantly remind them about
something. If you do that often/long enough it will work. No idea what
they do with their mails... often it was and still is like a black hole.

Anyway, I think it sucks that you posted this message in order to put
pressure on them. The internet never forgets. Even if they didn't have
any intent to pay you (FWIW, *real* fraudsters just take your money and
run), this is not something that belongs on a public forum but must be
handled internally... lawyers... whatever. But not by means of raising
public pressure. IMHO, UNFAIR!


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abalashov at evaristes...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

On 05/13/2015 06:53 PM, Markus wrote:

Quote:
Anyway, I think it sucks that you posted this message in order to put
pressure on them. The internet never forgets. Even if they didn't have
any intent to pay you (FWIW, *real* fraudsters just take your money and
run), this is not something that belongs on a public forum but must be
handled internally... lawyers... whatever. But not by means of raising
public pressure. IMHO, UNFAIR!

I don't agree with that. Small guys have little recourse.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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jprangi at didforsale.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Well said Peter.


-Jai


On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Peter Beckman <beckman@angryox.com (beckman@angryox.com)> wrote:
Quote:
So disappointing to hear Nitzan.

I've found that even when I don't think my customers are right, or I can
prove they aren't right, it is better for my own sanity and for my business
to make exceptions and provide a great experience and give refunds or send
money than to make up policies or excuses or try and prove that our
business is in the right.

I had a customer who didn't pay their bill, so after 30 days we
disconnected his numbers. They got really mad and said they lost a ton of
business. It wasn't our fault, but we also didn't want to have a customer
leave super unhappy. So they sent us an invoice for what they spent on some
advertising of those numbers and we split it with them.

Was it our fault? Nope. But we did it to demonstrate that our customers are
more to us than revenue generators. And the customer decided to stay with
us, and we have a great relationship with them to this day. It took 6
months for us to break even on that, but it was worth it for that
relationship.

I'm sure this post will cost the business more than $833 in bad press. It
doesn't even matter to me or them if either of you are "right" or to hear
their side. The relationship wasn't valued enough to solve this quickly and
move on.

I know you've experienced it too Nitzan, with the VoIP rates with Future
Nine back in 2010. Hopefully the you today would never respond to customers
with "No offense, and I'm sorry about this - but we are too busy right now
with other issues which are higher priority..." when they make a complaint.

I hope this can be a cautionary tale for all of us to remember that our
customers are humans too, and we need to treat them with respect, and to
be empathetic and value the relationship over money arguments.

Beckman

On Wed, 13 May 2015, Nitzan Kon wrote:

Quote:
Hello list,

Short version:
Teliax owes us $833 for TF traffic we sent them between March-November
2014. To date we have not received payment for any of this traffic, we
keep getting ignored, given the run-around ("someone in accounting is
looking at it"), and other excuses. BEWARE, AND DO NOT DEAL WITH THESE
FRAUDSTERS!

Long version:
Last year, in an attempt to get compensated for our toll-free traffic, we
got referred to Teliax by a member of this list. We signed the agreement
and started sending traffic - everything worked fine except for lack of
payment - we never received a single cent from Teliax.

After several months of not getting paid I tried contacting Simon Booth
(Director of Business Development) who assured me payment is coming -
they just supposedly pay about 3 months late. A surprise, but not
something I couldn't live with.

I waited another two months and not surprisingly we still haven't
received anything. I tried contacting Teliax again several times and was
either completely ignored, or assured that "someone in accounting is
looking at it".

A couple months later I broke down and threatened to expose them publicly
for their fraudulent business practices, to which I finally received a
reply from CEO David Aldworth claiming that they do not initiate payments
for amounts below $1000 - a ridiculous practice I was never told about,
and one that is NOT specified in our agreement. He acknowledged they owe
us $833 and assured me payment will be sent. This was back in November.
Half a year later we still haven't received payment, and as usual our
attempts at contact go ignored.

I have no choice but assume the worst, and label this company fraud.

--
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asterisk-biz mailing list
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beckman@angryox.com (beckman@angryox.com)                                 http://www.angryox.com/
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alex.lopez at opsys.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Unfortunately, I fear that sending the email to a public list may have cost him his 855.00.

Alexander Lopez
OpSys Consulting Group
PO Box 49-1333
Key Biscayne, FL 33149
Tel: 305 503 3000 x 122

Help-desk: (305)503-3000 Option 0 or
Email: HelpDesk@OpSys.com

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 6:54 PM
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.

On 05/13/2015 06:53 PM, Markus wrote:

Quote:
Anyway, I think it sucks that you posted this message in order to put
pressure on them. The internet never forgets. Even if they didn't have
any intent to pay you (FWIW, *real* fraudsters just take your money
and run), this is not something that belongs on a public forum but
must be handled internally... lawyers... whatever. But not by means of
raising public pressure. IMHO, UNFAIR!

I don't agree with that. Small guys have little recourse.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

--
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abalashov at evaristes...
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

‎... that he had essentially no chance of getting anyway. This way, he did something to tilt the odds toward his favour, even if it isn't especially likely to work. He also reported a useful fact that others should be aware of when seeking payouts from Teliax.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.
  Original Message  
From: Alexander Lopez
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 19:02
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Reply To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.

Unfortunately, I fear that sending the email to a public list may have cost him his 855.00.

Alexander Lopez
OpSys Consulting Group
PO Box 49-1333
Key Biscayne, FL 33149
Tel: 305 503 3000 x 122

Help-desk: (305)503-3000 Option 0 or
Email: HelpDesk@OpSys.com

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 6:54 PM
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.

On 05/13/2015 06:53 PM, Markus wrote:

Quote:
Anyway, I think it sucks that you posted this message in order to put
pressure on them. The internet never forgets. Even if they didn't have
any intent to pay you (FWIW, *real* fraudsters just take your money
and run), this is not something that belongs on a public forum but
must be handled internally... lawyers... whatever. But not by means of
raising public pressure. IMHO, UNFAIR!

I don't agree with that. Small guys have little recourse.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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universe at truemetal.org
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:18 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Am 14.05.2015 um 01:01 schrieb Alexander Lopez:
Quote:
Unfortunately, I fear that sending the email to a public list may have cost him his 855.00.

I think he will get paid eventually. He just needs to keep nagging them
for 3 more months or so Smile



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beckman at angryox.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

On Thu, 14 May 2015, Markus wrote:

Quote:
Am 14.05.2015 um 01:01 schrieb Alexander Lopez:
Quote:
Unfortunately, I fear that sending the email to a public list may have cost
him his 855.00.

I think he will get paid eventually. He just needs to keep nagging them for 3
more months or so Smile

And I think we can all agree that ANY company who requires its customers
to nag them to do what they promised is disrespectful and disappointing.

Beckman
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abalashov at evaristes...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

‎Markus is right, the Internet never forgets. The Internet is going to remember that Nitzan is the kind of guy who's not afraid to call bullshit on some sclerotic monstrosity's inability to perform basic functions, to the extent that if it were a child given food, it would starve because it's not smart enough to locate its mouth.

I think that redounds to the benefit of his reputation.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.


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gaving at alcazarnetwo...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

There are some pretty harsh judgements being made here on a one sided tale. Do I think anyone is lying? Probably not, but I am highly versed in the TFO collection process. Everyone I have seen making comments truly has no idea about the nature of the collections on this product. His contract is most likely built upon said collections. I have seen carriers reject bills of millions of calls because they claimed fraud on 5 calls of about a minute. Guess what it's all calculated on the carriers part to induce a low cost access agreement. I could ramble on for another hour about the realities of this, but the internet pitch forks are out. This isn't the place, and it's $800. Your right sometimes the little guys don't have a voice. Most times the big guys don't have a means of collections when they get stiffed multiple times every month. They don't speak their beefs over public forums.

Gavin

Quote:
On May 13, 2015, at 8:14 PM, Alex Balashov <abalashov@evaristesys.com> wrote:

‎Markus is right, the Internet never forgets. The Internet is going to remember that Nitzan is the kind of guy who's not afraid to call bullshit on some sclerotic monstrosity's inability to perform basic functions, to the extent that if it were a child given food, it would starve because it's not smart enough to locate its mouth.

I think that redounds to the benefit of his reputation.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.


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abalashov at evaristes...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

The big guys' elementary livelihood and survival doesn't depend upon the vicissitudes of such collections. 

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.


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abalashov at evaristes...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Also, on the question of whether the vendor in question are "fraudsters":

Sometimes, bureaucratic inanity is functionally indistinguishable from
wilful fraud, in the sense that someone who is contractually entitled to
a payment doesn't get paid.

It's the same basic reason as for the existence of the concept of
statutory negligence, wherein you can be charged with criminal
negligence for bringing an alligator to a public building even if you
did not intend it to harm anyone and even if, in fact, you took steps to
prevent that.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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alex.lopez at opsys.com
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

I think his chances or collecting will increase significantly if he shows up in the Teliax lobby with an alligator. It just a hunch......

-------- Original message --------
From: Alex Balashov <abalashov@evaristesys.com>
Date: 2015/05/13 11:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.


Also, on the question of whether the vendor in question are "fraudsters":

Sometimes, bureaucratic inanity is functionally indistinguishable from
wilful fraud, in the sense that someone who is contractually entitled to
a payment doesn't get paid.

It's the same basic reason as for the existence of the concept of
statutory negligence, wherein you can be charged with criminal
negligence for bringing an alligator to a public building even if you
did not intend it to harm anyone and even if, in fact, you took steps to
prevent that.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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abalashov at evaristes...
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:18 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD. Reply with quote

Smile

But seriously:

1. Nitzan had virtually 0% chance of collecting prior to posting;

2. To whatever extent his chances of collecting may have increased from
0% to merely negligible, he's done himself a favour;

3. He has no leverage in these situations;

4. As a small business, the negative impact to him is profoundly,
magnitudinally greater than the impact of collection problems on larger
companies.

As I see it, he had nothing to lose, everything to gain, and may,
depending on the specifics and realities of the case, even have done a
public service.

-- Alex

On 05/13/2015 11:12 PM, Alexander Lopez wrote:

Quote:
I think his chances or collecting will increase significantly if he
shows up in the Teliax lobby with an alligator. It just a hunch......

-------- Original message --------
From: Alex Balashov <abalashov@evaristesys.com>
Date: 2015/05/13 11:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Beware: Teliax toll-free compensation FRAUD.

Also, on the question of whether the vendor in question are "fraudsters":

Sometimes, bureaucratic inanity is functionally indistinguishable from
wilful fraud, in the sense that someone who is contractually entitled to
a payment doesn't get paid.

It's the same basic reason as for the existence of the concept of
statutory negligence, wherein you can be charged with criminal
negligence for bringing an alligator to a public building even if you
did not intend it to harm anyone and even if, in fact, you took steps to
prevent that.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
303 Perimeter Center North, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30346
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --

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To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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