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stotaro at totarotechn...
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

Like I said earlier, Asterisk can take ANI, it just takes some clues and work.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On 5/9/08, Mike Hammett <asterisk-biz@ics-il.net> wrote:
Quote:
Well, it wasn't really of spoofing, perse, but if the CNID received on a
toll free is the ANI, since toll free gets passed ANI, but from what I can
see it is not.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles Scruggs" <asterisk@wideideas.com>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI


Quote:
I don't see how that wouldn't apply since there still exists a calling
party and receiving party, and carrier. Since the question was of
spoofing it wouldn't make much sense to think of spoofing happening on
the receiving end.

You simply have no assurance that the ANI/CID you are receiving is in
fact valid. It is suppose to be but that is as far as you can go.

On May 9, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
Oh, I was speaking of inbound only LD (toll free) PRIs. Maybe I am
way off topic for this thread.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Miles Scruggs
<asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending. It doesn't matter if
you are calling 800s or not, they bill it back to the CID that you
pass (not to say that your carrier won't bill you as well since they
see the calls go through their switches, but they more than likely
won't see the reciprocal billing from the receiving LEC). Want a
proof of concept? Setup an account with a small terminating provider
like Junction networks, send all your calls out with the ANI of your
cell phone. Last step will be to recoil in horror next time you open
your cell phone bill. I'm not saying they can't track you down, or
trace abuse back to you, since everything is logged, but very little
verification happens.

If you are sending thousands of calls per day to a trunk that is
outbound only, from thousands of different parties, you don't have to
delve into to much logic to see the obvious result.

Cheer

Miles

On May 9, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
I may be wrong here but I do not believe that ANI can be spoofed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Quote:
Mike... The reason why collection services, skip tracers and
private
investigators ask to call back on their 800 toll free is simply
because you
can not spood your ANI to a 800 #.

________________________________
From: "Mike Hammett" <asterisk-biz@ics-il.net>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:29:48 -0500

Is the CID of a call to a toll free number really the ANI,
therefore not
spoofed or blocked?

Someone who's opinion I respect said it generally is, but he wasn't
sure.
Since I have a potential customer coming to me with an ANI
requirement, not
a CID requirement, I figured I should make sure.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Quote:
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asterisk at wideideas.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

I have an email into steve to setup a test case which he can watch to
see if it is possible to spoof, but haven't heard back from him yet.
I don't have access to a TF PRI to test it myself. I'm fairly certain
that ANI is completely able to be spoofed.

On May 9, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Quote:
Well, it wasn't really of spoofing, perse, but if the CNID received
on a
toll free is the ANI, since toll free gets passed ANI, but from what
I can
see it is not.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles Scruggs" <asterisk@wideideas.com>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI


Quote:
I don't see how that wouldn't apply since there still exists a
calling
party and receiving party, and carrier. Since the question was of
spoofing it wouldn't make much sense to think of spoofing happening
on
the receiving end.

You simply have no assurance that the ANI/CID you are receiving is in
fact valid. It is suppose to be but that is as far as you can go.

On May 9, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
Oh, I was speaking of inbound only LD (toll free) PRIs. Maybe I am
way off topic for this thread.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Miles Scruggs
<asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you
obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They
have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending. It doesn't matter
if
you are calling 800s or not, they bill it back to the CID that you
pass (not to say that your carrier won't bill you as well since
they
see the calls go through their switches, but they more than likely
won't see the reciprocal billing from the receiving LEC). Want a
proof of concept? Setup an account with a small terminating
provider
like Junction networks, send all your calls out with the ANI of
your
cell phone. Last step will be to recoil in horror next time you
open
your cell phone bill. I'm not saying they can't track you down, or
trace abuse back to you, since everything is logged, but very
little
verification happens.

If you are sending thousands of calls per day to a trunk that is
outbound only, from thousands of different parties, you don't
have to
delve into to much logic to see the obvious result.

Cheer

Miles

On May 9, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
I may be wrong here but I do not believe that ANI can be spoofed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Quote:
Mike... The reason why collection services, skip tracers and
private
investigators ask to call back on their 800 toll free is simply
because you
can not spood your ANI to a 800 #.

________________________________
From: "Mike Hammett" <asterisk-biz@ics-il.net>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:29:48 -0500

Is the CID of a call to a toll free number really the ANI,
therefore not
spoofed or blocked?

Someone who's opinion I respect said it generally is, but he
wasn't
sure.
Since I have a potential customer coming to me with an ANI
requirement, not
a CID requirement, I figured I should make sure.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Quote:
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jra at baylink.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 10:08:07AM -0400, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
ANI and caller ID are different. On a toll free circuit, you are
provided with true ANI due to billing. Caller ID can be changed,
whereas rates (ANI) can not be changed. ANI provides the true
caller's number for billing as well as ANI cannot be blocked as
opposed to CallerID.

And, to expand, ANI is necessarily set by the originating end-office,
while CNID *can* be accepted over ISUP from the caller, and they're
delivered in differently marked packets to the callee (assuming
ISDN/ISUP; if you're getting calls over analog or RBS T-1, then the
delivery will of course be different, and will depend, too on the
carrier who serves you. It is possible to get ANI on *non* INWATS
circuits, though I don't know precisely what the regulartions are; PSAP
trunks, for example, generally get ANI to feed their ALI systems, as I
understand it.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

Just replied. I am going to do a pri intense debug and see if I can
see the ANI as an IE. I quit the company that I had ANI all setup on.

1.888.777.8888, give me a second to SSH into the box.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
I have an email into steve to setup a test case which he can watch to
see if it is possible to spoof, but haven't heard back from him yet.
I don't have access to a TF PRI to test it myself. I'm fairly certain
that ANI is completely able to be spoofed.

On May 9, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Quote:
Well, it wasn't really of spoofing, perse, but if the CNID received
on a
toll free is the ANI, since toll free gets passed ANI, but from what
I can
see it is not.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles Scruggs" <asterisk@wideideas.com>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI


Quote:
I don't see how that wouldn't apply since there still exists a
calling
party and receiving party, and carrier. Since the question was of
spoofing it wouldn't make much sense to think of spoofing happening
on
the receiving end.

You simply have no assurance that the ANI/CID you are receiving is in
fact valid. It is suppose to be but that is as far as you can go.

On May 9, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
Oh, I was speaking of inbound only LD (toll free) PRIs. Maybe I am
way off topic for this thread.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Miles Scruggs
<asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you
obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They
have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending. It doesn't matter
if
you are calling 800s or not, they bill it back to the CID that you
pass (not to say that your carrier won't bill you as well since
they
see the calls go through their switches, but they more than likely
won't see the reciprocal billing from the receiving LEC). Want a
proof of concept? Setup an account with a small terminating
provider
like Junction networks, send all your calls out with the ANI of
your
cell phone. Last step will be to recoil in horror next time you
open
your cell phone bill. I'm not saying they can't track you down, or
trace abuse back to you, since everything is logged, but very
little
verification happens.

If you are sending thousands of calls per day to a trunk that is
outbound only, from thousands of different parties, you don't
have to
delve into to much logic to see the obvious result.

Cheer

Miles

On May 9, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
I may be wrong here but I do not believe that ANI can be spoofed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Quote:
Mike... The reason why collection services, skip tracers and
private
investigators ask to call back on their 800 toll free is simply
because you
can not spood your ANI to a 800 #.

________________________________
From: "Mike Hammett" <asterisk-biz@ics-il.net>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:29:48 -0500

Is the CID of a call to a toll free number really the ANI,
therefore not
spoofed or blocked?

Someone who's opinion I respect said it generally is, but he
wasn't
sure.
Since I have a potential customer coming to me with an ANI
requirement, not
a CID requirement, I figured I should make sure.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Quote:
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digital.com--

asterisk-biz mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

Ready

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Steve Totaro
<stotaro@totarotechnologies.com> wrote:
Quote:
Just replied. I am going to do a pri intense debug and see if I can
see the ANI as an IE. I quit the company that I had ANI all setup on.

1.888.777.8888, give me a second to SSH into the box.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Miles Scruggs <asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
I have an email into steve to setup a test case which he can watch to
see if it is possible to spoof, but haven't heard back from him yet.
I don't have access to a TF PRI to test it myself. I'm fairly certain
that ANI is completely able to be spoofed.

On May 9, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Quote:
Well, it wasn't really of spoofing, perse, but if the CNID received
on a
toll free is the ANI, since toll free gets passed ANI, but from what
I can
see it is not.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles Scruggs" <asterisk@wideideas.com>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI


Quote:
I don't see how that wouldn't apply since there still exists a
calling
party and receiving party, and carrier. Since the question was of
spoofing it wouldn't make much sense to think of spoofing happening
on
the receiving end.

You simply have no assurance that the ANI/CID you are receiving is in
fact valid. It is suppose to be but that is as far as you can go.

On May 9, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
Oh, I was speaking of inbound only LD (toll free) PRIs. Maybe I am
way off topic for this thread.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Miles Scruggs
<asterisk@wideideas.com> wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you
obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They
have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending. It doesn't matter
if
you are calling 800s or not, they bill it back to the CID that you
pass (not to say that your carrier won't bill you as well since
they
see the calls go through their switches, but they more than likely
won't see the reciprocal billing from the receiving LEC). Want a
proof of concept? Setup an account with a small terminating
provider
like Junction networks, send all your calls out with the ANI of
your
cell phone. Last step will be to recoil in horror next time you
open
your cell phone bill. I'm not saying they can't track you down, or
trace abuse back to you, since everything is logged, but very
little
verification happens.

If you are sending thousands of calls per day to a trunk that is
outbound only, from thousands of different parties, you don't
have to
delve into to much logic to see the obvious result.

Cheer

Miles

On May 9, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
I may be wrong here but I do not believe that ANI can be spoofed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM, <nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Quote:
Mike... The reason why collection services, skip tracers and
private
investigators ask to call back on their 800 toll free is simply
because you
can not spood your ANI to a 800 #.

________________________________
From: "Mike Hammett" <asterisk-biz@ics-il.net>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:29:48 -0500

Is the CID of a call to a toll free number really the ANI,
therefore not
spoofed or blocked?

Someone who's opinion I respect said it generally is, but he
wasn't
sure.
Since I have a potential customer coming to me with an ANI
requirement, not
a CID requirement, I figured I should make sure.


----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Quote:
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

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Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, 9 May 2008, Steve Totaro wrote:

Quote:
Asterisk can take ANI, it took me a while to figure it out but it can.

Would you be willing to post your experience to the list for those of us
who would like to try to toy with it? Hopefully your time with it can
make us all experts and save time! Smile
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

I just tested spoofing the ANI with Steve, I'll be happy to send you a
spoofed call as well if you want to become a believer.

Only thing that is regulated is spoofing to cause harm or fraud.

On May 9, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I
Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://
baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1
727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)


I found this nugget that seems to verify that ANI spoofing is
possible, especially using VoIP. My setup is a LD T1 PRI, The test
was done via VoIP as it was successful. Actually the test call was
done via all VoIP which explains it. I am a TDM on the outside and
VoIP on the inside so I was wrong and outside of my realm.

http://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/asterisk_news/cidani_spoofing_on_voip_using_asterisk.html

"What is Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing?
Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing is setting the number you are
calling from without the use of an operator / company PBX system. By
far the easiest method thanks to the increasing take-up of internet
telephony services are VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) service
providers who allow you when using their service to set whatever
caller ID you like (which is also used as ANI)."

Let's see....

Well I was wrong but this should not be. I think the FCC needs to
enforce and regulate this.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

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stotaro at totarotechn...
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Steve Totaro
<stotaro@totarotechnologies.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)


I found this nugget that seems to verify that ANI spoofing is
possible, especially using VoIP. My setup is a LD T1 PRI, The test
was done via VoIP as it was successful. Actually the test call was
done via all VoIP which explains it. I am a TDM on the outside and
VoIP on the inside so I was wrong and outside of my realm.

http://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/asterisk_news/cidani_spoofing_on_voip_using_asterisk.html

"What is Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing?
Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing is setting the number you are
calling from without the use of an operator / company PBX system. By
far the easiest method thanks to the increasing take-up of internet
telephony services are VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) service
providers who allow you when using their service to set whatever
caller ID you like (which is also used as ANI)."

Let's see....

Well I was wrong but this should not be. I think the FCC needs to
enforce and regulate this.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro


Re-reading this, providers have it all wrong and should be cracked
down on with fines or whatever. ANI is not the same as Caller ID but
this quoted text indicates they are using one and the same.

I do know some VoIP providers that do not allow you to use a number
that is not allocated to you.

Quote:
By far the easiest method thanks to the increasing take-up of internet
telephony services are VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) service
providers who allow you when using their service to set whatever
caller ID you like (which is also used as ANI)."

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

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cbvance at msn.com
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Actually there is no federal law as yet.

There is a House Bill HR251 that will prohibit spoofing with intent to do harm or fraud. Also there is a senate Bill SR37 that has similar language.

However, there is no indication if the Senate will even bother to conference with the house to make it law, so for now there is no law regarding spoofing.
Quote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Miles Scruggs (asterisk@wideideas.com)
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion (asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com)
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 12:52
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] ANI


I just tested spoofing the ANI with Steve, I'll be happy to send you a
spoofed call as well if you want to become a believer.

Only thing that is regulated is spoofing to cause harm or fraud.

On May 9, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com (jra@baylink.com)
Designer The Things I
Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://
baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1
727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:52:40AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
I just tested spoofing the ANI with Steve, I'll be happy to send you a
spoofed call as well if you want to become a believer.

Only thing that is regulated is spoofing to cause harm or fraud.

What, Miles, is your originating carrier and circuit type?

Steve? You got two calls, purportedly from the same circuit, with
different (hopefully invalid) ANIs, and the same CNID as one another?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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stotaro at totarotechn...
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:52:40AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
I just tested spoofing the ANI with Steve, I'll be happy to send you a
spoofed call as well if you want to become a believer.

Only thing that is regulated is spoofing to cause harm or fraud.

What, Miles, is your originating carrier and circuit type?

Steve? You got two calls, purportedly from the same circuit, with
different (hopefully invalid) ANIs, and the same CNID as one another?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)


His VoIP provider is sending both ANI and Caller ID as the same value,
both valid. The carriers are free to do this I guess, if or until
there is a law/rule passed to stop it.

The only other explanation is that he used two different phones but I
am the trusting type. Besides the quoted article confirms that VoIP
providers use Caller ID as ANI.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 12:59:42PM -0400, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 08:18:02AM -0700, Miles Scruggs wrote:
Quote:
This belief is limited to your experience with PRIs. When you obtain
SIP termination services from ATT, Verizon, or Level 3. They have no
way of verifying what ANI/CID you are sending.

You don't *send* an ANI.

Your carrier does.

I'm pretty sure the FCC puts their foot down on this point, though I
can't cite chapter and verse.

I found this nugget that seems to verify that ANI spoofing is
possible, especially using VoIP. My setup is a LD T1 PRI, The test
was done via VoIP as it was successful. Actually the test call was
done via all VoIP which explains it. I am a TDM on the outside and
VoIP on the inside so I was wrong and outside of my realm.

http://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/asterisk_news/cidani_spoofing_on_voip_using_asterisk.html

"What is Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing?
Automated ANI / Caller ID spoofing is setting the number you are
calling from without the use of an operator / company PBX system. By
far the easiest method thanks to the increasing take-up of internet
telephony services are VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) service
providers who allow you when using their service to set whatever
caller ID you like (which is also used as ANI)."

Could you post the portions of the dump which cause you to believe ANI
was spoofed? See my other reply on this...

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: [asterisk-biz] ANI Reply with quote

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 01:07:17PM -0400, Steve Totaro wrote:
Quote:
Re-reading this, providers have it all wrong and should be cracked
down on with fines or whatever. ANI is not the same as Caller ID but
this quoted text indicates they are using one and the same.

I do know some VoIP providers that do not allow you to use a number
that is not allocated to you.

Correct. No carrier sending packets to the SS7 network should be
originating CNID *or* ANI that doesn't match *some* numbers for which
the subscriber in question is assigned.

I don't have chapter and verse, but you can bet I'm going to go find it.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

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